Episode #6: What Sets The Happy Hormone Cottage Apart

Lyn Hogrefe & Jeff Hogrefe talk through what sets The Happy Hormone Cottage apart from other hormone centers & even your doctors.

Topics covered:
~ our Step One consultation
~ our cutting-edge testing method
~ the difference between synthetic hormones & bioidentical hormones
~ the importance of thyroid, insulin, & cortisol
~ why we do NOT do hormone pellets at The Happy Hormone Cottage
~ how we are a one stop shop
~ the education & continuing education of our staff

***Although our HHC has a telemedicine license to easily service clients in Ohio and Florida, we can also work with clients who live out of state as long as they come and visit us in person annually. Our goal in publishing this podcast nationally is for the educational value contained within. Education is key!***

Transcript

Pam: [00:00:00] Welcome, everyone. Welcome to the Happy Hormone Cottage podcast. My name is Pam Gross. We have been talking extensively about hormone imbalance and the importance of listening to your body. And we've also been speaking in depth about Why you need hormone therapy, how you go about taking those first steps in regards to if you're a little hesitant, but you've got some symptoms, but you're like, yeah, but I've kind of don't know enough about it.

So we've been trying to really, really educate people on the importance of understanding what's going on with their body. But also why hormone therapy is so very important, not only short term for symptoms and things like that, but longer term for chronic diseases. So here you are, you've started thinking that maybe hormone therapy is for me.

And so you've done your research and now you've decided that hormone replacement, yep, this might be my path [00:01:00] forward. I can lead a kind of a, a healthier and a happier life. And now you have to find the right professional because that's key to why you are your best advocate. You also need an advocate who will work on your behalf.

If you think about it, we are inundated every day with all kinds of advertising. We've got TV, we've got print, you get billboards. And you hear about all of these things and clinics for the hormone replacement therapy. How do you decide what's the best fit? Hopefully, after our conversation today, you'll find out what sets Happy Hormone Cottage apart from all the other clinics.

Today, we are welcoming again, Lyn Hogrefe. Who is the founder and executive director of Happy Hormone Cottage. She is also the women's warrior of wellness. And today we're going to be joined by her husband, Jeff Hogrefe. And Lyn, welcome Lyn, welcome Jeff. Lyn, I'm actually going to let you do the introductions to [00:02:00] Jeff because he has a very, he's very impressive with his credentials.

He's a compounding pharmacist. So I kind of want you to reap all of your praise onto him right now, because he is a very impressive guy. 

Lyn: He's very humble, so let me, let me talk for Jeff as not only a pharmacist, he's a compounding pharmacist because of my own journey within the whole hormone world.

He has an advanced fellowship in anti-aging regenerative medicine. So he's a fellow. He also has certified in peptide therapy, and he has several other credentials, but I'm really, really proud of him. He, the man loves to learn. You know, give me a romance novel on the beach and I'm happy as a clam. And he wants to look at charts and graphs, makes me crazy.

There we are. That's why, why I think we're so good at what we do is because he loves to learn. just does not ever stop learning. I think that's, that's really, really important. So Jeff, I'm so glad you're here with me and um, adorable and I love 

Pam: you to death. I love you 

Jeff: too. Thank you for that introduction.

That was a very kind way of saying I'm a geek, but I appreciate it. 

Pam: There's one thing Jeff that, cause Lyn and I have [00:03:00] talked extensively about hormone therapy and most of the focus is on women. That's why it's nice to have you here. Who's going to talk about. much more of the intricacies of the, of the medicine and supplements itself.

I want everyone to please note that this is not just an issue for women. This does affect men as well. And I know that the Happy Hormone Cottage does help men as well. As I had said in a previous show, we are actually going to do a show dedicated to men and I'm quite certain Jeff, you will be part of that podcast.

So I would expect so. Yes. As I said in the beginning, we are kind of inundated every day with ads from all kinds of places in terms of where would I go and how do I decide what's the best place for me to go for hormone therapy. Because obviously I want to know what makes or what sets apart [00:04:00] Happy Hormone Cottage.

From all of the other clinics out there, because I know what you guys do is much more extensive than other places. 

Lyn: When I began my cottage 13 years ago, I had no business plan, didn't really, wasn't really interested in making a lot of money. I just wanted to help women because I knew that women had no clue on how to feel their best.

And I'd just been through this journey with my husband helping me and guiding my journey. And I thought, Oh my God, I'm onto something and no one knows about it. Why don't I open this place, give it a crazy name you're not going to forget. So I did the happy home on cottage and women began to show up and they told their friends who told their friends and husbands gotten involved.

And here we are 13 years later with a medical facility medical director, 5 nurse practitioners, a staff of over 20. so from a 1 dog and pony show, it's just grown in 13 years exponentially. And it's because we're really focused on the actual individual person and we're about their best health and we're full of transparency and authenticity.

And I also began and created this business plan, if you will, when [00:05:00] I did develop one. Let's go ahead and start with a step 1 consultation that will last about an hour to really listen to the woman's needs, what her goals might be, and answer her plethora of questions on What is this crazy cottage? And what do you do?

And how can you help me? How can I help me? Because my doctor isn't helping me. No matter where I go, I'm not getting help. So I think the step one has been key to our success and getting women that time for either 25 or for free. Just listen to them and ask them what it is. How can we help you? Right?

That's how can we help you? Not trying to make a buck off of their, their visit. So we start from a place of authenticity and transparency, and then we have really amazing testing. We don't do blood work for sex hormones, typically. We don't do saliva testing. We do state-of-the-art, cutting edge testing. In fact, we were the cut, we were the very first client of Mark Newman, the inventor of the Dutch test and his laboratory in Oregon.

Uh, precision analytical lab. Who has very 1st client ever [00:06:00] 10 years ago. I think that's incredible when you can work with the founder of a company who's a chemical chemist to get the skinny on every woman's body and they provide a 15 page diagnostic test results on the woman's body. You start from that place of just.

Empowerment and then you can really dive, dive deeply and look at women's cortisol, sex hormones and thyroid and really get a big picture and snapshot of what it is we can do for them to make them often their best health naturally as they age. You 

Pam: had talked about the testing. It sounds to me like it's a, it's a lot more extensive than people would think.

So Jeff, when Lyn was kind of talking about all your credentials and then, uh, the fact that you so like to keep up to date on everything, on things that are changing and all of those things, this kind of feeds into that because it's obviously why you do what you do, because number one, obviously you enjoy it, but you're also always looking at From the perspective of the one size doesn't fit all for everyone.

And I think that [00:07:00] that's really important as to why you kind of are looking at all these other avenues and other things. I want to start with the basics, if you don't mind, Jeff, because one of the things that as I've been digging into this, you hear a lot about synthetic hormones. And then you also hear about bioidentical hormones.

Can you kind of a walk, walk us through what's the difference? 

Jeff: Yeah, I think pharmacists are uniquely positioned because we've spent a lot of time doing pharmacokinetics and looking at not only drugs or hormones, but how they get broken down in the body. And so critical to this whole piece is really the route of delivery.

Okay. And so when you're talking synthetic, most of the time you're doing an oral. You're swallowing a capsule or something like that. And from our perspective, when you take something orally, guess what? You dissolve it in the stomach, it immediately goes to the liver, gets broken down, and then goes to the body.

Alright, and the [00:08:00] problem with that is that there are a lot of things the liver does with. Bioidentical means that this is the estrogen that your body's produced. The liver kind of knows how to deal with that, okay, whereas a synthetic, which is a slightly modified compound of bioidentical estrogen, the liver is a little bit confused by it, and so it starts breaking it down and metabolizing it, and in this process, they've kind of determined it's how the body breaks down these synthetic estrogens is what causes the problem, and the relationship between Thank you.

Increasing breast cancer is really about the metabolism of these synthetic estrogens. Okay, so for us, we're very clear about how we want hormones to be done. Not only do we want them bio, the bioidentical, but we want them at a physiological dose. In other words, your ovaries produce X amount of estrogen.

We want to kind of mimic that and give you kind of that level of estrogen. We also want to do a vaginal delivery. Which is [00:09:00] really key to what we do and I'm confused as to why most places don't do this because when you apply a hormone to a cream to the skin, it's a barrier and so it doesn't get absorbed consistently, whereas the vaginal tissue is a much better medium for getting the hormones in.

And also if you think about it, your ovaries are down in that area and so it's kind of got a distribution area. So what we found is that we can get very low doses, like about a tenth of what most people are doing and still get the benefit without getting into the challenges around how the body breaks it down and the increase in breast cancer and all those other things.

So I think we mitigate really breast cancer risk by how we do this. Um, and then the testing that we do, Lyn talked about the Dutch testing. The Dutch testing does measure how the body is metabolizing estrogen, and we play a really close attention to that because if we see issues, we [00:10:00] really want to kind of fix that and see if we can't get the liver to perform properly and properly metabolize estrogen.

It 

Pam: was kind of from everything that you said, which was a great explanation, by the way, even I, who just a lay person, uh, understood exactly what you said. So thank you very much for that on the bioidentical. So basically what it sounds like, it's kind of an exact. The difference when we go back to the synthetic and the bioidentical, it sounds like bioidentical because it isn't the one size fits all kind of thing.

It sounds like it's kind of an, it's a replica of kind of what we already have. And that's kind of what the goal is, right? 

Jeff: The big thing that gets missed is that we are dynamic people. We're not static. We shift and change a lot of times. We have what we do is a very flexible. We can adjust dosing on a flyer for people based on their symptoms, and you don't have that luxury when you're using commercial [00:11:00] products.

And so I think that's the real advantage that gets missed in all of this. It's not really the fight versus synthetic. Or, um, bioidentical as much as it, do you have the flexibility to meet the needs of the patient as they move through perimenopause and menopause and all the 

Pam: shifts that go on? One of the phrases that I came across was something that particularly, and this kind of goes to our discussion that I had with Lyn a little earlier when we were talking about people who are kind of hesitant and as they're educating themselves and the things that they should look for.

One of the phrases that I came across was a thing called precision dosing. And blanket dose and that to me from everything that you just kind of described is precision dosing sounds exactly what it sounds like. It's really for, because we're all different and we're all different people that you're going to have different doses, whereas if you kind of have a blanket dose, it's here's the pill and it's the same pill that they hand to everyone.

That was just [00:12:00] something that I kind of, as I was researching this, kind of came across, and that's what I, I was, that's why I wanted to know the difference between the synthetic and the bioidentical. Going back to what makes you guys different, Happy Hormone Cottage different than other clinics. You've got your testing clearly is very extensive and obviously much different than what other people would do.

Tell me about your staff. Tell me, I mean, as I'm assuming that that's also probably something that kind of sets you apart. I mean, the 

Jeff: staff consists of our nurse practitioners and a couple of them have been doing it a long time, 30 years. A lot of experience with the nurse practitioners. We have a, an MD doctor who kind of oversees the process and he gets engaged with, with treating the men, but he leaves treating the women, mostly nurse practitioners.

So there's a really good female energy with the cottage in terms of. Like women feel very comfortable with our practitioners. Our nurse practitioners are in that demographic. They have a really good [00:13:00] connection with that staff. And then we have several pharmacists on staff too. And, and each of them bring a lot of, um, expertise in certain areas.

We have a clinical pharmacist, we have a compounding pharmacist, um, and then we have some other pharmacists that are kind of learning more clinical stuff around hormones as well. We work as a team really well. We bring in. Drug therapy, but we also look at nurse practitioners and what they do as well.

Pam: Yeah, and I think it's really important for people to understand that you are looking for people who have knowledge, who have the experience. All of those things are really important when you're looking at who is going to understand me best, who's gonna listen to me? 'cause listening obviously is one of the most important things.

And who has the experience and knowledge that's really going to be able to understand what's going on. What kind of new products are out there, those kinds of things, because you know, every day technology changes and I'm going to digress a [00:14:00] little bit, but one of the things, cause you mentioned about some of the products and the compounding that you do, you were talking about how it minimizes the risk of breast cancer and those kinds of things.

That seems to be one of the biggest hesitations. And I think it has to do with people are hesitant when you mention hormone therapy, they're hesitant because there's so much out there in regards to that. Oh, you don't want to do that. It's bad for you. There seems to be a little bit of that negativity, but as you dig and you learn more and more about this, and this is key to why you want it.

a good staff and you want people who are knowledgeable and stay up to date on it like, like you do, Jeff. It's important to understand that to use a phrase, this ain't your mama's hormone therapy from the 60s. It's completely different. I think that people need to kind of understand that and then they need to, they need to get past that fear and understand a lot of the [00:15:00] things that maybe it was 20, 30 years ago is not what it is now.

And I think that that's where, when you were talking about the different products, I think that's super important for everyone to kind of understand. So Jeff, kind of in simplest of terms, can you kind of tell me how your treatment strategies differentiate you from Other clinics without giving away 

Jeff: too many trade secrets, right?

Yeah. Okay. Part of this is the argument about sex hormones and women come to us because they're having hot flashes and all those things related to low estrogen. The reality is, is that you have three major hormones in the body and it's not the cortisol. And those guys can run the show if you're not careful.

So when we test, we're looking at those things as well. And I'll tell you, thyroid appears very easy to treat on the surface, but it's very complicated. And cortisol, no one's really doing cortisol stuff. I mean, [00:16:00] outside of the Cushing's and the Addison's, those are the major diseases around cortisol, but there's a lot of subtle things about cortisol that need addressed.

And if your cortisol is not Working properly, then we can throw hormones at you to your blue in the face, and we're not going to have a great success. So, we, we really address insulin, we address thyroid, we address cortisol, in the meantime, then we can start adding sex hormones, the estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone.

And that's kind of what makes us different is that it's very integrated, integrative hormones then. We want to combine all therapies and get the best results. So, Jeff, 

Pam: walk me through so that everyone can kind of understand. Give me kind of a layman's term on, on what, what the thyroid is, what it does. Uh, same for cortisol, because I'll be honest with you, cortisol, I don't, I don't know anything about that.

At least I do kind of know about the thyroid and insulin obviously has to do with being a diabetic. [00:17:00] So yeah, walk us through those three things and kind of give us a quick kind of overview. 

Jeff: In the functional medicine world, those are the three, that's the major thing to deal with in most people, is those three hormones, okay?

We call that triad one. The most important thing to work with. Cortisol is your stress hormone, okay? So it affects energy, it affects fatigue, it affects sleep, it affects your ability to fall asleep, to stay asleep. It affects your 3 o'clock afternoon when I'm starting to crash because your cortisol levels are dropping.

So when you measure that, when you start looking at a pattern, what we call the diurnal pattern of cortisol, It needs to follow a very specific pattern. If it doesn't, we can predict your symptoms a lot of times. And then it's like, well, let's go after this. Let's fix this, okay? Because this is all coming from your brain, who's controlling all this cortisol release.

And so adaptogenic... Products is kind of where we start with cortisol. Okay, so we do things to [00:18:00] stimulate the brain. So at 2, 3 o'clock in the afternoon, you're not ready to go to bed. And then we do things to calm the hypothalamus of the brain down so that you can fall asleep, stay asleep and not wake up at 3 a.

m. wide awake staring at the ceiling. Okay, because these are all quality life issues. And when cortisol is screwed up, Then that affects thyroid. That affects your ability to absorb thyroid. Okay, a lot of thyroid issues are not really related to your thyroid gland. That usually works fine. It's how the thyroid gets into the cell to work its magic, which is to produce energy.

Every cell needs thyroid to stimulate energy production. The cortisol will mess up thyroid abilities as well. Insulin comes along, and then people who have crashes after eating, who have low energy, who can't lose weight, there's a lot of things going on with their insulin and their ability to manage insulin too.

Those are kind of the big three for [00:19:00] most people. And to optimize that, not only just look at the labs and say you're okay, but to say look, There are certain things we could do to kind of optimize these levels, and then we can see dramatic improvement. Truthfully, doing the progesterone, estrogen, and testosterone are pretty easy to do once you fix those other hormones.

Is 

Pam: there a difference between whether someone takes, like you said, with gels and pills and pellets? I mean, what, is there a difference? Is one better than another? Or again, are we back to, it kind of depends on the individual again? 

Jeff: So about 20 years of doing this, I think we've... Arrived on, I think, the best solution, which is vaginal application of creams.

The other ones can have issues, and we've talked extensively about the issues with pellets, and I have issues with just topical, because I think you end up overdosing people, and there's no really good way to monitor these patients if you're applying it. You can have a [00:20:00] totally different result. And totally different labs if you're applying it to the wrist versus the inner thigh versus the feet or wherever.

It's very variable and it's very hard to work with in my mind when you do topical. Oral progesterone has a few advantages in terms of helping sleep. It's not really progesterone therapy. We really want progesterone therapy. And so when we do a vaginal application with cream, we get progesterone. 

Pam: Is there, because I noticed that sometimes as you're inundated with a lot of these ads and things like that, a lot of these clinics and things, they use pellets.

Is pellets, are they good? Are they bad? Are they, and when I say that, as I've researched it a bit, that is what they use. They don't, they don't really use anything else. 

Jeff: So, in my mind, pellets are a nice grab, honestly, because if you give a woman who's very low in testosterone a pellet, She feels like a million dollars.

[00:21:00] That's the whole thing, right? And it's like she tells her friends, Oh my gosh, my life has changed. So that first round of pellet goes great. All right. You come back and do the second pellet. Okay. And she's still hosile vulnerable. They come back and do the third round. On the fourth round, we start getting issues because now we never really return to the baseline of where she was initially, where her levels were very low.

And so what happens is we stair step her up. So the second pellet, her levels are higher. The third time, her levels are still higher. By the time we get into that fourth, fifth insertion, she gets into what I would call a range of testosterone, somewhere between where a female should be and where a male should be.

And so now you start seeing all these side effects, you know, maybe she starts getting some facial hair or her voice. I mean, the worst case we ever had was a soprano singer who basically could never sing professionally again because she lost her soprano voice. Wow. She masculinized. [00:22:00] Those are my concerns with pellets.

is that it's just too hard to monitor and it's too hard to get a result. When you're doing a daily application, you're not seeing these elevations and hormones and this masculinization happening. 

Pam: See, Lyn, it kind of goes back to what one of our previous conversations that we had when we talked about women are afraid of the testosterone and that they were going to...

It turned into hairy beasts and things like that, and that's kind of what Jeff's kind of describing with pellets, if it's not working. Yeah. Yeah, I 

Jeff: spent a long time studying pellets because I was part of the initial pellet drive 20 years ago and looking at pharmacology and I'm very familiar with it, but there wasn't great data and we started looking at the data and it's like, there's a problem 

Pam: here.

Okay. Well, that's good to know because that definitely is something that does set you apart tremendously from other, um, They're an amazing 

Lyn: moneymaker for the doctor and the pellet manufacturer. [00:23:00] And they do a world, they offer a world of hurt to women. And I will never do them as long as my business will never do them because when you know better, you do better.

And I don't consider that hormone balance where it's hard to measure. So for all those reasons, and I have a huge blog with lots of followers about why we don't believe in them. And the biggest issue is with hair loss. I mean, the testosterone, the DHT, the male pattern baldness. Listen, hair is a big deal.

Well, you don't have it anymore. Yeah. So. 

Jeff: Yeah, I, I really get nervous because I think it gives our industry a bad name. But it is 

Pam: interesting because that it does seem to be. And I bet if you ask, and when you've probably come across this from your Hormones 101, I bet you've had women who've told you probably some stories in regards to pellets and things like that.

So it definitely, definitely is something that sets you guys apart. The other thing I wanted to ask you, Jeff, was, because I think something that is unique to Happy Hormone Cottage. You are also a pharmacy and a lot of the clinics and a [00:24:00] lot of the advertising and things that you see with other facilities, they're actually not a pharmacy, and I think that that is also something that really sets you guys out apart from everyone else.

Oh, I 

Jeff: agree. I mean, I think we're very user friendly. I mean, I think healthcare in general is rather disastrous. There's no communication between physicians and labs and 

Pam: pharmacies. Oh, you can go to the hospital and they don't even talk to the nurse or the doctor and they're 10 feet from each other.

Right. Just 

Jeff: try and get a refill, you know, and the rigmarole that goes on just trying to get a refill and have the pharmacist reach out physician's office, physician's office respond back. I mean, I mean, we've worked with a few select doctors and that's our biggest headache is working with outside docs, but within us, I mean, if you stay within us and see our nurse practitioners.

It's just seamless. I mean, you see the doc, they prescribe it, we fill it, we get your supplements, you're out the door. You want to refill, you send me a [00:25:00] message, right? You have a question for the MP, you go into our medical records, send a message. If you want to refill for me, you send me a message. You have a question?

It's really, really 

Lyn: integrated. One stop shop. It's been very, very efficient. And the thing is, it makes us all very accountable. If there is a problem, we fix it. From the nurse practitioner to the, I mean, we're in house. We know people's names. We know we've been with them for years. We know a lot of them by first names.

And so it's very personal. And I think that, that just, it just, it just, it makes us successful because listen, women matter. Every, every person matters. Men too. I don't work with a man, but women matter. I mean, it's personal. 

Pam: It's personal. And I was going to say, cause it was funny. I'm glad you said one stop shopping because I actually wrote that down because that's what it is.

I mean, we talk about the fact that one size doesn't fit all again, what makes you and your happy hormone cottage so unique is the fact that it is one stop shopping. But I also like something else that you said, [00:26:00] and it was that because you are all of that and you do everything. In house and you've got it all right there, including the pharmacy, which I think is key.

It does make you very accountable because you know who you're dealing with. And if you've got an issue, you've got a question, you've got a concern. You guys are all right there. I think that is really, really important. 

Lyn: We do all of it. It's functional medicine. It's just not, we don't look at the body as pieces, but as a whole, that's important.

Anyone else does that? And honestly, it's because most people aren't as well versed in what they're doing as Jeff is. I mean, in our nurse practitioners, we have, listen, we have in house training every other month for several hours. We come to the table together as NPs, and we are always learning and growing and doing case studies.

I think that's incredible again. You've got to walk your talk and we're education 1st, and that includes our practitioners. 

Jeff: I think that's really a different. Yeah, that's a great point. I mean, yes, we do do a lot of in service training, but we also put a lot of value on information and training. And so our.[00:27:00] 

We always do yearly training, and 

Lyn: I think it's important. There is no like, when you became an accountant, you could take it to get classes and get a degree in accounting. There's no manual for for there isn't a manual there when we train a new nurse practitioner. We start from scratch. They've got to go to webinars and podcasts.

We've got to read, but we can't have them a manual here. Read this one doesn't exist. And it's interesting, right? It isn't taught medical school. There's no place you can. There's no one place you can go to get information. You've got to pull and we've we've trained 5 of them. Now you've got to. I mean, you've got to pull from, pull from different places and do in service training and have Jeff mentor them.

I mean, it's just, it's hard. That's why I don't think that this is done very well across the country, because you just can't go in and start doing it. It doesn't work. You've really got to be immersed in it and have done this for like Jeff said, 17 or 20 years, and then you get really good at it. Right.

Does that 

Pam: make sense? Yeah, no, it does. I'm glad you said that because I think this is important for people to understand. When you come to the Happy Hormone Cottage, [00:28:00] you're coming to a facility that is different than what you're hearing on the radio or what you're looking at a billboard. It's completely different.

As you said, and Jeff, that was one of the things I liked what you said too about the Happy Hormone Cottage. Does have an integrated approach to things because if you think about it, it isn't just about, uh, somebody comes in, we have a hormone imbalance and yeah, you can fix that, but this is about something bigger than that and that's where the integrative approach is important because I know too.

Lyn, you also have a weight loss clinic. And that's the thing is that it's about more than just one little piece. And I, and I think that was an important point. We have the 

Lyn: Integrative Hormone Center at Pharmacy, which is the umbrella term underneath the Integrative Hormone Center. You've got the Happy Hormone Cottage, the Men's Center, the Compounding Lab, the Supplement Line.

I mean, it is really the Integrative Hormone Center because we are integrative. 

Pam: Well, Jeff, thank you very much. Lyn, Hografie, both of you. Thank you very [00:29:00] much. Thank you again for what you do. I think, and I hope that everyone who was listening to this, number one, I hope they learned a lot. I know I did, and I hope that everyone will understand Happy Hormone Cottage is different.

It is different than what other clinics and facilities are out there, and I do hope that everyone will check out their website, happyhormonecottage. com. If you want to get a hold of Lyn or Jeff, I'm assuming Jeff, you also can be, you can re reach too at. 6 3 4 3. Again, we do all kinds of different podcasts, different shows.

You wherever you get your podcasts, you can find any of our shows on podcasts. So please go on there and, and listen to them, follow us and like us. Cause obviously we want to rise up in the ranks a little bit there, but I want everyone to understand that what really makes you guys different. It's the fact that you are, you're all very [00:30:00] educated.

Your staff is educated. They're knowledgeable. They have experience, but there's also something else that you guys all possess and that's passion. You love what you do and you want to help people. That's the kind of place that when you're looking for some help, you want to go to a place like that. So, and that is the happy hormone cottage.

So everyone, thank you again, Jeff and Lyn. Thank you. Thank you for what you do and everyone. Thank you for listening. See ya. Bye bye. All right.