Episode #9 - Sex, Libido, & Intimacy

Lyn & Jeff Hogrefe talk through sexual hormone health, libido, & intimacy

Topics covered:
~ estrogen & testosterone balance
~ why women struggle with libido
~ cortisol's role 
~ the hypothalamus
~ vaginal dryness
~ how to bring libido back
~ how Jeff created Adrenal Calm & Adrenal Boost to help with cortisol issues
~ differences in men's & women's libido
~ oxytocin
~ the Happy Hormone Cottage's holistic approach

Call us at 513-444-6343 with questions or to get started.

happyhormonecottage.com

***Although our HHC has a telemedicine license to easily service clients in Ohio and Florida, we can also work with clients who live out of state as long as they come and visit us in person annually. Our goal in publishing this podcast nationally is for the educational value contained within. Education is key!***

Transcript

Pam: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to Happy Hormone Cottage podcast. At the Happy Hormone Cottage, we are all about helping women and men understand the aging process, how our bodies change as we grow older and hopefully wiser, and we are a one stop experience for bioidentical hormone replacement therapy. My name is Pam Gross.

And today we are going to talk about sex and intimacy and who better to talk about this important topic than with Lyn Hogrefe, the founder and executive director of the Happy Hormone Cottage and Jeff Hogrefe, compounding pharmacist, advanced fellowship in functional medicine and the owner of Integrative Hormone Center.

Welcome to you both. Thank you. So happy to be here. We have talked quite extensively about the aging process. And about the changes that our bodies go through as we grow older and how our hormones get out of [00:01:00] balance over time. One of the many perks. Yes, I used air quotes. of this change in life is low libido or a low sex drive.

You no longer have the desire for or really think much about sex and it is mostly because your hormones are out of balance. We are going to open this can of worms and we are going to discuss this topic that so many people are uncomfortable talking about. Frankly, It is one of the most overlooked symptoms in menopause between men and women.

And are you guys ready to jump in and tackle this subject? Fasten your seatbelts. Right. So let's start with the basics. What is libido? Okay, 

Lyn: Jeff, go ahead. You're the clinician here. Take it away, Okay. 

Jeff: Libido, I would describe as just a desire for sex or desire for intimacy. 

Pam: Easy. Yeah, that is pretty simple.

[00:02:00] Jeff, is our libido driven by estrogen or testosterone? 

Jeff: It's sort of a combination. Testosterone typically will drive it, but having too low or too high of estrogen will also diminish your libido or sex drive. So we aim for a kind of a reasonably high testosterone level, but also hitting testosterone.

What we call the sweet spot and having a ratio between adequate testosterone estrogens. 

Pam: From things that I've read, estrogen helps your skin. Yes. And it helps it stay 

Lyn: stimulated. Yeah, it produces collagen to help prevent the wrinkling process. 

Pam: Okay. Yeah. Yeah, we just talked to someone who's, she, her face looks one amazing.

And she's 64. Yeah, she looks terrific and, uh, and she credits that. Yeah, hormone balance. But from everything I was learning about estrogen, that it helps your skin kind of stay stimulated and that when, when those levels kind of get out of whack. Mm hmm. That they kind of affect your erogenous zones, because if you kind of think [00:03:00] about your skin, obviously, I'm talking as a girl, so.

For women, you know, it has to do with the touch when someone touches you and how you get stimulated It can be the smell of someone most women do love men who smell really good Yes, so I know that that is all factors. I think into getting kind of aroused. Sure. Okay, so that's a fair Yeah, okay Jeff, let me ask you a question in terms of why do women often, why do they kind of struggle with the lower libido as they get older, particularly I think your magic age is kind of 35 is when all of that kind of starts getting a little out of balance.

Jeff: Well, I think it's a multiple of different things, and you kind of have to drill down with women in general to figure out what's the cause of libido. Sometimes it's a matter of low estrogen has caused an issue with the lining of the vaginal walls. And so intercourse becomes painful. And when it's [00:04:00] painful, it's not much fun towards it.

The discomfort takes you away from wanting to do it. It loses the kind of that enjoyable experience, I guess. And so making sure that that is in line, especially with menopausal women, that they do have like decent, um, estrogen wall that can handle sex for the most part. With younger people, it's not a matter of that.

It's often a matter of what's going on with them. I mean, if they're not thinking about sex, what are they thinking about? And a lot of it is, is just day to day stuff. Maybe financial stress, maybe kids stress, all these other things that kind of have pushed into their psyche and taken for the desire for sex away.

And it's sort of a subtle thing for most people, but as life goes on and you get more engaged with other things, you tend to get less interested in sex. And so that's important to determine. as well. So that's what we teased out. What's the reason [00:05:00] for why the libido is 

Lyn: down? And women that I talk with every week on my hormones 101 with Lyn Zoom sessions is that women are just tired.

I mean, Pam, they're tired. They're raising Children working full time jobs, taking care of aging parents, their husbands, their last on their list, their stress. They're not sleeping well because hormones are beginning to be a little bit wanky and tired. Women just don't want sex. That's not a light bulb moment.

That's just And so we often through our Dutch testing like to identify, well, let's look at your cortisol. Let's see what your stressors are because cortisol is a libido killer. And there are things we can do to help impact cortisol to get it back into a great curve. And Jeff can talk about that more.

But often when we get them back on their own list and they get some sleep and their cortisol levels begin to even out again, libido can come back and it takes about seven or seven or eight months for that to come back. And it's not a magic button that you can push or a magic wand that you wave. It's something you really have to be conscious of and work toward restoring by taking care of yourself and your hormones.

And often that's a cortisol issue as well. 

Jeff: I think you hit on a [00:06:00] point that Women need to put themselves on the list, and we often say, you know, if you're not going to put yourself on the list, then why should we, why should we engage or invest in you if you're not going to do it yourself? That often brings, like, tears and sort of a realization for women that, hey, you know what, you're right, if I could put myself back on the list and take care of myself, because if I don't take care of myself, I'm no good to anybody, my kids, my husband, or whoever I'm dealing with.

So that's an important thing to have a conversation 

Pam: with. It's interesting because when you think about it, and we, we've talked about this in the past, is that women, it's like when we, you go through puberty, and the reason you go through puberty, obviously, is so that, because it's, it's, you're going to your childbearing years, and then once you get through your childbearing years, that's pretty much when everything kind of goes downhill from there.

But if you think about it from a sex point of view, from a libido point of view, We, as [00:07:00] women, actually, after the fact that we are past our childbearing years, we actually should be much more kind of interested in, in, in have a higher sex, sex drive. Number one, we don't have to worry about getting pregnant, which is a main huge thing when you're younger.

And it certainly can tamper the enthusiasm or whatever it is that, you know, is going on. But the other thing is, is that because we, we don't have to worry about also getting pregnant, the other thing is, if we weren't suffering from the imbalance of our hormones, we would actually find it probably more enjoyable in terms of being able to kind of, because we know ourselves better, we know what we want, and more importantly, With having a spouse who is very supportive and attentive, you're able to kind of communicate better with them, and you're able to tell them, and it works both ways, it's men and women, in terms of what you like, what you don't like, any of that, so it's kind of a shame that people don't [00:08:00] want to have that conversation, when in all honesty, It's a perfect, it's like a perfect part of your life that can be enhanced.

And I think that's kind of important. So another question I kind of wanted to ask you has to do with what is the main driver of female sex drive? And I was reading about the part in your brain called the hyposalamus.

So can you kind of tell us, number one, what that is? And does that actually control your sex drive? Yeah, sure, and Jeff would love 

Lyn: to talk about that. 

Jeff: Hypothalamus, it's like the central computer of your brain. It takes all the input, what you see, what you feel. What you know what you're experiencing at the moment, and it's so it's sort of there to direct allow certain signals to come in and filter out certain signals.

And we get into that with sleep. Like, if you're, if you're really wired and you're allowing all this [00:09:00] stimulus to come into your health hypothalamus, you don't sleep because your brain starts wiring and you just start thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking. And so part of what we do with cortisol is to kind of wind you down and sort of block or filter out some of that input as well.

In terms of sex drive, I think it's the same thing. I think we get so much input, whether it's, gosh, I got to pay this bill, or I got to go pick up the kids, or I got to do this, I got to go to work, I got to prepare dinner, whatever it is, tons and tons of input. And somewhere along the line, I think that input for sexual desire.

It's lost in the shuffle. That's the way other things are going on. 

Lyn: Spontaneity is kind of hit also. And then I, I know lots of times you'll read in cosmopolitan articles about the, the American shoulds, like Americans should be having intimacy twice a week or so many times a month. And I think that puts pressure on people to have to perform.

And that may or may not be the truth. And I think that when I said to me too, [00:10:00] for years, you know, gosh, those articles don't really help because it makes me feel ashamed that I'm not. Performing at that level or what should we be doing? And I think the truth is you need to do what feels best for you and your spouse or your partner Yeah, you know what I mean?

I think that's an important no one seems to be talking about it And let's have a conversation to let you know that you are okay where you are and if you would like to have a change a great place to start might be to look at your hormone levels and cortisol and Go to a place that might really invest in that arena because it's really an important part of life, right?

Yeah, life is for the living 

Jeff: taking the pressure off of it. Sometimes I’ll say, you know, sex is fun That's it. Leave it at that. Just know that it's fun. And don't put, attach anything else to it. No 

Pam: expectations. And I think that's important because if you think about it, we are sexual beings. That's why I asked about the hypothalamus.

If you think about it, we are sexual beings. So we can dream about sex. It also gives us a sense of kind of eroticism. It's funny because off mic, and I'm going to share this again, is that we talked about, there's that [00:11:00] scene in that movie, Demolition Man. And in the scene of Demolition Man, it's got Sandra Bullock and it's got Sylvester Stallone in the movie.

It's a, it's a, kind of a sci fi in the future. People don't really have physical sex, they don't. Everybody's supposed to run around and say, Hey, have a nice day, everything's good, all of that. But, There's this scene in there where Sandra Bullock is obviously attracted to Sylvester Stallone and she asked him back to his her to her apartment and says, Do you want to have sex?

And of course, he's like, Yeah, heck yeah. So they go back to their to the house and she goes in the bedroom. She comes out and she comes out with headphones like these little head video headphone things. And he's like, What the heck are we doing here? And she's like, This is how we have sex because they don't have physical sex, but they're having mind sex.

And that's why when you describe that, and we talked about the how hypothalamus, that's what, what, what kind of reminded me of because there's that scene in that [00:12:00] movie where they put the headphones on and then they, you know, Have all these erotic images and he's totally freaked out about it and throws the headphones down and says, No, no, that's not how you have sex.

So anyway, I just old school, right? Right. And there's something to be said about old school. So there you go. So Jeff, let me ask you a question. How can issues with the libido cause issues within your marriage? Oh, that's 

Jeff: shame is a big one. I mean, how do I say that if, if men lose interest in sex and I think the wife feels like I'm not attractive anymore and can go down that rabbit hole when it could be not the case at all.

And, and, and so then there's, she brings in, I'm not good enough. And then you get into this sort of friction between the marriage. 

Pam: Yeah. Cause you're kind of describing then like an emotional response to it, to something that may be physical or biological. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and, and which can be obviously [00:13:00] through hormone therapy can, can be, can be treated and treated and helped and 

Lyn: lots of times with the women I speak with.

Perhaps their hormone levels are changing at a little bit of a faster rate, and they often are too tired to really want intimacy. And the husband, of course, maybe has a higher testosterone level. In many cases, we hope that's the truth. And he wants more sex than she does, and that can cause a lot of friction.

I see that quite commonly with my women that we work with. And that can cause a lot of issues with, even as far as infidelity, you know, so. Yeah. We like to say sometimes that we save lives, we save marriages with our hormone therapy and all humbleness, because libido is a really big deal. And we do want to make sure that we address that as well so that everyone can have their needs met.

And as you mentioned, sex is a need, right? So yeah, yeah, 

Jeff: sure. Yeah. And specifically, I mean, if you're starting to use hormones, hormones play a big key in terms of like clitoral stimulation and. They're achieving an orgasm and all those things that we enjoy about having sex. If you can return some of those things to normal, [00:14:00] then I think a woman will get more interested in that because it's now enjoyable for her as well.

Lyn: And I think I should mention too, for postmenopausal women who might be listening, is that often with age and lack of. estrogen production, that vaginal dryness is a really big issue. I think Jeff mentioned it in intercourse becomes painful. We can easily fix that. I mean, we use these great estriol creams vaginally and it absorbs and then it's no longer painful.

The dryness is taken care of and it's very safe and effective. And so once we take away the pain, it becomes much more enjoyable. So all these issues can really be 

Pam: addressed. Yeah, that was actually one of my questions was how do you bring the libido back? Okay. 

Lyn: Well, I think the first thing is we do a great diagnostic test on the hormone levels including cortisol to see where they are and see how we can best address those and improve those levels back to physiological levels where we'd like them to be.

And once we address those issues, we find that intimacy tends to come back, libido tends to come back, becomes more physically pleasurable because we've eliminated the dryness issue, we've eliminated some of the stress that comes [00:15:00] with it, maybe some of the shame. There's been a conversation about it and it does take some time to come back, but we seem to have a lot of success with it, right, Jay?

Pam: All right. Absolutely. That was actually in the, the second part of my question was, is there a hormone therapy or a supplement that can help? And you kind of talked about the creams and 

Lyn: creams and yeah, we, we like the hormone balance, the three, the three, the trio of the estrogen. When one needs it and then the progesterone and then the testosterone based on great diagnostic testing.

And then of course the cortisol. And also if you have a wanky thyroid, we want to get that functioning too. You know, our arena, I have used a trial before the arena, what we are really invested in is the sex hormones and the thyroid and the cortisol. We get all those working optimally. You can sort of bring your life back to where, where you like it to be and you can enjoy things like the intimacy.

Pam: Yeah. You talked about the cortisol there. So, obviously, fluctuating levels of cortisol obviously affect the libido. So, Jeff, what can you, can you kind of expand on that a little bit more, and then how long does [00:16:00] it take for you to kind of revitalize your libido? 

Jeff: Lyn talked about about seven, eight months sometimes, depending, sometimes not that long.

When you think about cortisol, you're thinking about stress, and are you following a normal stress response? And a lot of times people are really using up their cortisol. And by the time midafternoon comes for the rest of the day, they're kind of done and they don't have any energy. So, we really try and focus on that.

Can we help you maintain your cortisol levels throughout the day so that they're nice and low before you go to bed, but the rest of the time they stay kind of up as well and you don't crash. You don't have that 3 o'clock in the afternoon crash as well. I mean, because once you crash at 3 o'clock, you're kind of done for the day and so if you're trying to have sex in the evening.

You just, there's nothing in the tank. In terms of mental or physical energy 

Lyn: to do it. And I will share Jeff is too humble to mention this, but he several years ago created this proprietary formula [00:17:00] from adaptogenic herbs. And we actually have at our happy home on cottage two really great products, adrenal calm for calming your cortisol down, cortisol down at night so you can sleep well.

So when you wake up in the middle of the night to use the restroom, perhaps like I do. Then you can go right back to sleep and your mind isn't racing and thoughts racing. And then he also has created Adrenal Boost you take with breakfast and lunch to give you energy in the day and help that typical afternoon crash.

So we sell lots of these products because they're adaptogenic herbs. They really help heal cortisol and adrenal fatigue. And we find great success using those in bringing back things like the libido. You 

Jeff: can really work on the hypothalamus. And when you do that, it's wondrous. for a lot of people.

Probably almost, if not more important than sex hormones sometimes to re-regulate the cortisone stress level. How 

Pam: are men and women's libido different, particularly as they age? 

Jeff: That's a great question. Um, I, [00:18:00] I, I think women have more physiological issues. Right with loss of stimulation and vaginal dryness, and I think men are more of a mental part of it.

So, you know, all speak specifically to men at the moment. And say that I don't always look closely at testosterone levels. I look at what testosterone is supposed to do. And then I kind of set an expectation for my guy. Say, okay, testosterone is supposed to make you think about sex. Okay, so part of this treatment when we start treating you for testosterone, I'm very curious to know.

Are you thinking about sex more? Is it coming into your brain on a regular basis? I mean, certainly not every 7 seconds like a 12 or an 18 year old guy, but are you thinking about it more and more as well? And are you changing your mindset about it? So it's like, all right, other things are happening, but sex is still really important to me as well.

It's called the dopamine effect. [00:19:00] Uh, because testosterone has a really strong dopamine effect. It's a neurotransmitter of passion of I'm in charge, I got this, and that's really critical more so than even a testosterone level is to know mentally, are you, are you engaged in really thinking about sex? And that goes hand in hand.

Then we're starting to look at like morning erections as one of the things that should improve with testosterone therapy. And then also, 

Lyn: you know, I know some medications like blood pressure medications will often help prevent erections. And so. Looking as a pharmacist, looking at the prescriptions that the man is on to us and is helpful, 

Jeff: right?

Yeah, more than a couple of times that changing the timing, like if guys were taking their medication in the morning, if you switch it to like at bedtime, their energy levels change and even their libido and ability to have an erection changes as well. So it's very critical to look, taking one tablet a day of a blood pressure medication is fine, but it really matters.[00:20:00] 

What time of day you take it, when all these other things are accounted for. 

Lyn: So ask your pharmacist, because doctors may not often know. And then there's an issue and you don't know what it's coming from. And there, it's an easy, easy solution, 

Pam: right? That's interesting, because is that something that if someone comes to the Happy Hormone Cottage and you go through the whole testing and you do all of that?

Is that part of the conversation that you would have in terms of other medication and whether or not, what time of day would be, would be more optimum for, you know, obviously energy levels? I think especially for the 

Lyn: men, that's true. Yes. But the answer to your question is yes. 

Pam: Okay. Yeah. Is it true, because we've always heard this, is that women, for, for, for women, sex is very emotional and not necessarily physically driven because why people will always sometimes look, and I always used as the example of that.

The guy who, uh, was married to the supermodel, uh, who was the lead singer of the Cars, Ric Ocasek. Everybody would be like, okay, wait a minute. How is that hot chick [00:21:00] attracted to, to that dude? But it's much more emotional than it is physical. Whereas men, sex is much more physical. 

Lyn: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And I think women, it's a sense of safety and comfort and safety and comfort and emotional wellbeing, emotional safety.

For men it is often quite physical. Right. Yeah. 

Jeff: Well, if you think about after sex, both male and female release a lot of oxytocin, which is a neurotransmitter. Oxytocin for women makes them feel connected and bonded. Oxytocin for men puts them to sleep. Yeah. 

Lyn: That is true. He's looking at me when he says that.

Yeah. It's a personal sharing there. That's a person. Yeah. That's absolutely right. Yeah. Yeah. 

Pam: That is kind of true. If you think about it, because women want to cuddle. They want to cuddle. And talk a little bit. And men are over there snoring. 

Jeff: Yeah. That's right. Sorry. I'm, I'm, I'm, 

Lyn: I'm checking out. Literally, he is snoring.

Yes. I want to roll him over and then slap him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Pam: Yeah. That's [00:22:00] funny. So as, uh, as we kind of close out this discussion, is there anything we didn't discuss that you think we should have discussed? I 

think 

Lyn: we've kind of hit the nail on the head. I just want to encourage listeners to get your needs met and have a conversation with a trusted ally or friend or.

Call us at the Happy Hormone Cottage. Just, I think it's important to get your needs met. Awareness is key. And that there's nothing wrong with you for wanting sexual fulfillment. We're here to help you get that if that's important to you as well. 

Pam: Yeah, and I think one of the things we have always talked about is the fact that it's important that And I think this is where the Happy Hormone Cottage does a great job is that you kind of have to look at this as a big as kind of a holistic approach come with specific symptoms and obviously you go through the testing and to find out where you're out of balance and how to how to put them back in balance, but then there's also you have your whole mental needs and then you have Your sexual needs, [00:23:00] spiritual, and you have spiritual, I mean, all of those things kind of impact your overall wellness, I think.

And I think that that's why you need to go to a place that understands the whole picture 

Lyn: of something. I'm glad you said that because I just had a conversation with someone who owns a fitness facility and his perspective is that eating well and exercise is everything. It's everything. And I said, look at me.

So I was 49. I was a distance runner. I ate well and I had osteopenia. I was on the way to osteoporosis. And I was a distant, I mean, I would run six miles, four nights a week. Jeff can verify and 10 or 11 on the weekend. I was crazed. No, I mean, you could hard press to find someone in better shape than me.

And I still had lower hormones because I was no longer, I was 49, not 35. And I had osteopenia, which is a, an estrogen and testosterone issue. So I'm here to tell you that. Although exercise and eating well is really important, it is not everything. And there are often, almost always, other hormone issues that we need to address as you age beyond age 35 to keep you in your [00:24:00] best overall health and look at the big picture.

Yeah. 

Pam: Yeah. I agree. I agree with that. Thank you, Lyn. Thank you, Jeff, for an informative and interesting discussion, obviously on a topic that many people honestly try to avoid. Yeah. Yeah. And the, the truth is... Most people, they don't really get the help they need with the sexual intimacy, but it needs to be a priority, and they really should make it that priority.

And I think we all need to have kind of empowerment over our own sexuality. And in order for us to have better experiences and greater experiences as we get older. Thanks again for joining us and remember your journey through your change of life doesn't have to be miserable or lonely. So let the Happy Hormone Cottage help so you can have emotional satisfaction.

You can enjoy intimacy with your partner. And you can improve your quality of life. So contact the Happy Hormone Cottage at [00:25:00] 5 1 3 4 4 4 6 3 4 3 or go to the happy hormone cottage.com. Also, check out our other podcasts wherever you get your podcasts, and be sure to like us and follow us at the Happy Hormone Cottage.

So thanks guys. Thanks Jeff. You guys have a great weekend. Thank you. You too.